Gun Control 2022

[Del]

It is amazing to me that the Democrat Party is always the one on the wrong side of the natural law and natural rights. A large political party is supposed to be a coalition of good citizens seeking good policy for the common good. Somehow the Democrat party keeps getting taken over by elite special interests -- Slave-owners, union mobsters, abortion lobby, sexual deviants. It doesn't have to be like this.

You do know that Democrats have arguments for the common good, natural rights and all that too, right? Lol!

Or do think that no one else is paying attention?

There have been decades when the Democrats were facing the right direction. The New Deal and the Great Society, for example, were policies toward greater prosperity and the common good. The Civil Rights era, and support for the early labor unions. We can dispute whether those strategies worked, in hindsight, but we can all agree that Democrats had wholesome reasons for what they did. They gave us some great visionary leaders, like James K. Polk, FDR, and John F. Kennedy.

I'm just saying that when America got it very wrong -- slavery, segregation, abortion, mainlining LGBT into schools, CRT -- the Democrat Party leaders scored 100% for the anti-natural side. It appears to be a systemic problem.

My guess: Democrats have a long history of putting their faith in elites and experts. Jackson founded a populist party, but it was quickly overtaken by aristocratic plantation owners. Later, Woodrow Wilson established a Party of arrogant experts. Ivy League credentials, people who know better than the rest of us. Occasionally they will let dolts like Jimmy Carter or Joe Biden win a nomination, but only because such milquetoasts are easy to control. Harry Truman was a fluke that they wouldn't tolerate again.

For many decades, Republicans haven't had an agenda to speak of or the spine to assert any policies. Their saving grace is that, every so often, they would allow a populist bumpkin like Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, or Donald Trump win the nomination. Such men were not respected by the Republican establishment (and positively despised by the Democrat establishment), but people prospered as their natural rights and populist enthusiasms were restored.
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In the 19th century, Democrats were the conservative party and Republicans were Progressive -- abolishing slavery was a very progressive policy. Teddy Roosevelt is a patron saint of progressivism, busting trusts and championing grand projects like the Panama Canal.

I think the streams crossed in the 1960's, when Republicans and Democrats worked together to pass the Civil Rights Act. The "Solid South" was entirely Democrat, because Southern Democrats were the party of racism, segregation, and Jim Crow. As American culture changed swiftly, nobody wanted racism anymore. The South became solidly Republican, as the Republicans became the new conservatives. The South wanted to remain conservative without the racism, and the Democrat Party (the new Liberal/Progressive Party) left them behind.

[Del]

For once, I think Del is right. The D's don't care about the next election cycle. They move the needle to left when they have the power then shout from the sidelines when they don't. The R's don't completely recover the lost ground so we're inching further and further left. Two steps left, one step right.

I'm absolutely certain that firearms in the hands of citizens will be illegal in the US some day. It may take a hundred years, but incremental cuts and jabs will eventually get it done. Like eating an elephant.

And just how exactly have the Republicans taken steps left? Perhaps a penchant to spend money, but in all the wrong places perhaps. Lol!

The most obvious cases are no-fault divorce and gay marriage. Republicans have rolled over on the re-definition of marriage, which goes something like "Marriage is a tax-filing status recognizing any couple with an intimate sexual relationship."

Children are no longer important to marriage... government has a "Head of Household" tax code for them.

The natural law definition is "the union of a man and a woman, together for one lifetime, and open to receiving children."
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In general, "Moving Left" means "moving away from the natural law and natural rights."

[Del]

Since we're far off the gun control rails anyway, I offer this clip from Bill Maher. Towards the end he discusses conservative and liberal political commercials. They show a bunch of ads where the candidates proudly and loudly state they're conservative. Then Maher points out that Democrats don't say they're liberal. "The implication is that you [Democrats] are embarrassed about what liberalism has become. That the term is now irredeemably coupled with woke nonsense." "It seems we've found the one thing liberals won't identify as - - - liberals."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dMOfwUP0F0

This ties in with that famous tweet by Elon Musk.


As Republicans move toward the center and Democrats sprint to the left, honest liberals like Bill Maher, Elon Musk, and our own Thunkertank eventually find themselves more faithfully represented by Republicans than by Democrats.

A lot of those liberals now self-identify among the swelling numbers of "Independents." We'll see this in November.

Basically, liberal and conservative Americans agree on the foundational principles of liberty, prosperity, and families. We agree that our common Christian culture is essential (even if we are not believing Christian individuals). We dispute somewhat on the best strategies for max liberty, max prosperity, and how to help families achieve these in their own lives.

Liberals favor government programs as solutions to most problems. Elected Democrats and Republicans are mostly liberals, in this regard.
Conservatives would generally like to see the elimination of most government programs. Too expensive for too little result. Most voters of either Party are conservative, in this regard.

Meanwhile, the woke Leftist and their identity politics oppose nuclear families and religion in general. They are Marxists, looking to substitute any sort of identity divisions in place of economic "class struggle." Re-establishing racial divisions and the newly invented gender divisions are vogue now.

[FredS]

Yes, that's it exactly. But notice, in Musk's diagram, that the 'conservative' is depicted further from center in 2021 than in 2012 or 2008. I think Trump was too far right, and I think Trump voters/supporters (take you and the Tuttles for instance) are too far right. You didn't move right necessarily, but you stayed planted where you were 20 years ago while the rest of the Republican party has moved left which is pushing the center further away from you. It's getting lonely out there isn't it?

Conserve literally means "protect (something, especially an environmentally or culturally important place or thing) from harm or destruction".

I identify as a social conservative - that is, I think American society was (by and large) better 50 years ago than it is today and I would have chose to conserve that if it were in my hands. It's funny though, that hardcore Trump conservatives - drill baby drill - are willing to piss all over the actual conservation of our environment if it means more jobs for drillers and miners and lower fuel bills.

[DLJake]

I do not have an AR-esque rifle. Since there's scuttlebutt about the Feds grabbing the one I don't have; I really needed to look at getting one before that thread got locked.

These jokers are way expensive! I can't afford to purchase one to show my distain to a maybe, kind of possibly of some sort of go get them already purchased AR-15 executive order; thus forcing a shots fired being called at The Tobacco Fairy HQ Compass.

See? What a hassle.

12 gauge pump. No fuss. No muss

[Del]

Yes, that's it exactly. But notice, in Musk's diagram, that the 'conservative' is depicted further from center in 2021 than in 2012 or 2008. I think Trump was too far right, and I think Trump voters/supporters (take you and the Tuttles for instance) are too far right. You didn't move right necessarily, but you stayed planted where you were 20 years ago while the rest of the Republican party has moved left which is pushing the center further away from you. It's getting lonely out there isn't it?

Conserve literally means "protect (something, especially an environmentally or culturally important place or thing) from harm or destruction".

I identify as a social conservative - that is, I think American society was (by and large) better 50 years ago than it is today and I would have chose to conserve that if it were in my hands. It's funny though, that hardcore Trump conservatives - drill baby drill - are willing to piss all over the actual conservation of our environment if it means more jobs for drillers and miners and lower fuel bills.

Well.... I haven't seen anything new in the last 20 years to persuade me to change my positions. If anything, I am persuaded to move closer to the earth and hearth: Grow a garden, smoke of pipe, learn to slow-smoke barbecue and home-cook comfort foods, re-establish traditions from my youth to share with my grandkids. Things like home-made rubber band guns.

It is true that I am not persuaded by the climate alarmism. this ain't my first rodeo. I've seen acid rain, global cooling, and nuclear winter all threaten to kill us all "within 10 years."

I fell for the "hole in the ozone" hype, back when I was in high school. So I'm not surprised that current high schoolers are all-in on the climate change thing.

I haven't complained about the windmills everywhere, in spite of the threat to wildlife. I would just rather see a reliable supply of "clean" energy running before we shut down our current power plants. France built a bunch of new nuclear plants to replace their coal power, in preparation for the Paris Accord. Why can't we do something like that?

Instead, we are looking at rolling blackouts all over the nation this summer. Meanwhile... 2x gas prices, avoidable inflation, baby formula shortages, and all manner of soviet-style privations.

Call me conservative, but I think we could have done this a lot better than shutting everything down on Jan 21, 2021.

[tuttle]

Yes, that's it exactly. But notice, in Musk's diagram, that the 'conservative' is depicted further from center in 2021 than in 2012 or 2008. I think Trump was too far right, and I think Trump voters/supporters (take you and the Tuttles for instance) are too far right. You didn't move right necessarily, but you stayed planted where you were 20 years ago while the rest of the Republican party has moved left which is pushing the center further away from you. It's getting lonely out there isn't it?

This assessment is correct. All you have to do to be considered a "conservative" today is to hold the positions Joe Biden held 10 years ago.

Though I would quibble about being "too far right" it is nonetheless true that according to today's spectrum I'm considered to be just to the left of al Qaeda. According to Biden's DOJ and Homeland security I'm a domestic extremist.

It's funny though, that hardcore Trump conservatives - drill baby drill - are willing to piss all over the actual conservation of our environment if it means more jobs for drillers and miners and lower fuel bills.

I've brought this up a handful of times in the last forum. I think the only thing I really praised Obama policy-wise for was his environmental/wildlife stuff and criticized Trump for overturning some of it. That said, conservatives really missed by leaving every environmental issue to the left. They don't and won't make conservative environmental scientists in the schools anymore. Thus making a cohort of radical leftists the "experts" in environmental issues. And even now, when you hear a Republican try to enter the environmental fray with policy, it's on the left's terms and using their narrative, which shows how absolute their hold on it is (and again how conservatives only conserve the latest liberal victories). But I'm getting to far afield for the thread.

[Biff]

Some thoughts that I had while reading:
-Most Californians are gay.

Shhh.... don't tell Thunk

[coco]

Our streets will not be safe until we outlaw the sale of anything that TSA says you can't take on a plane.

[Hovannes]

Honestly, I'm wondering where the fact that guns are feminine and egalitarian - compared to more ancient weapons - fits into this.

Given that a woman can use a gun more or less equally to a man, while more ancient weapons such as swords, spears, clubs, axes, and so on were much more dependent on the physical strength of the wielder.

I'm not sure whether this truth will make Republicans start to hate them, or Democrats start to love them. Or both.

Or that the elderly, minorities and the physically challenged can shoot accurately enough to defend themselves as well.
That ought to put AARP and other alphabet organizations into play as well, no?