Gender Roles

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

… [T]here comes a point though, if you can't catch the bad guy alone because he's pretty smart, when one must charge into the crowd, arms swinging and guns blazing, to stop the bad guy[.] It's always good to be righteous. Given careful consideration, it's not always the best course though. International Rules allow for that eventuality. …

International Rules account for the fact that Collateral Damage/Deaths can be practically unavoidable even when scrupulously following the Rules. But they don't allow that the selfsame International Rules can ever be broken.

Assuming that you're not saying anything different, I'd venture that we're pretty much on the same page here. 'Sall good.

We all agree that Israel has not violated international law or targeted civilians.

[…]

We do?!? My agreement was only regarding the selectively-quoted text.

I'm not prepared to preemptively clear Israel/IDF of any-&-all pending & future allegations. These things often take years to fully sort out. So, let the wheels of justice turn for Israel as with any other Nation-State.

I hope they've kept their nose clean. Time will tell.

[Del]

+JMJ+

We all agree that Israel has not violated international law or targeted civilians.

We do?!? My agreement was only regarding Fred's selectively-quoted text.

I'm not prepared to preemptively clear Israel/IDF of any-&-all pending & future allegations. These things often take years to fully sort out. So, let the wheels of justice turn for Israel as with any other Nation-State.

I hope they've kept their nose clean. Time will tell.

Of course, I am using a figure of speech.

When we speak of "All Americans agree," we are implicitly ignoring the lunatic fringe who have insane beliefs, and we are excluding the propaganda in politics and media who want us to disregard our lying eyes. (Like how Biden's media keep insisting that inflation is not a problem, thanks to Biden's leadership.)

Anyhow, I am confident that history will judge Israel's conduct as exemplary. They have been extremely transparent in their efforts to minimize harm to civilians. When mistakes and even a few authentic crimes have occurred, IDF have been transparent in reporting and they have held those responsible accountable.

IDF have been more effective in protecting Palestinian civilians than America was during the Iraq War, and Saddam Hussein was not even trying to hide behind his citizens.

[SlowToke]

I always find it interesting when people debate the "fair and ethical rules" of modern warfare as if it's reasonable and logical to assume some gentlemanly agreement in how we go about murdering each other in times of war.

[Del]

I always find it interesting when people debate the "fair and ethical rules" of modern warfare as if it's reasonable and logical to assume some gentlemanly agreement in how we go about murdering each other in times of war.

Medieval warfare among Christian nations and nobility used to be much gentler. Killing the enemy wasn't even the goal -- it was far more profitable to capture the soldiers and seek ransom for their release.

Even in ancient times, sending champions out to combat (see David & Goliath) was considered suitable for resolving a battle, without having to set the armies to slaughtering each other.

It wasn't until the break up of Christendom that killing the enemy became a primary goal of war in the West. Cromwell, Napoleon, WWI & WWII.

Anyhow, this heritage is why Western people believe think that wars should be conducted according to civil rules.

Israel is a Western nation -- heck, their own ancestors authored the Judeo-Christian culture we cherish! They love the rule that respects life, and honor it.

The terrorists are not civilized Western people. This is why they continue to fight like animals when they cannot win. And why the use their own women and children as shields. They see our restraint as weakness. They don't care about the loss of innocent lives, and they know that we do.

[Del]

Back on topic:

Boys aren't allowed to be boys anymore.

But girls are.

[JimVH]

Gender role humor that may or may not have any relevance to the current discussion.

[SlowToke]

I always find it interesting when people debate the "fair and ethical rules" of modern warfare as if it's reasonable and logical to assume some gentlemanly agreement in how we go about murdering each other in times of war.

Medieval warfare among Christian nations and nobility used to be much gentler. Killing the enemy wasn't even the goal -- it was far more profitable to capture the soldiers and seek ransom for their release.

Even in ancient times, sending champions out to combat (see David & Goliath) was considered suitable for resolving a battle, without having to set the armies to slaughtering each other.

It wasn't until the break up of Christendom that killing the enemy became a primary goal of war in the West. Cromwell, Napoleon, WWI & WWII.

Anyhow, this heritage is why Western people believe think that wars should be conducted according to civil rules.

Israel is a Western nation -- heck, their own ancestors authored the Judeo-Christian culture we cherish! They love the rule that respects life, and honor it.

The terrorists are not civilized Western people. This is why they continue to fight like animals when they cannot win. And why the use their own women and children as shields. They see our restraint as weakness. They don't care about the loss of innocent lives, and they know that we do.

I suppose the rules of war are only logical if they are agreed upon and followed by both sides. The goals of the war are also of consequence. If the goal is annihilation of the enemy at any cost (which it seems to be these days), the defender best adjust to the aggressors rules. Civility is a losing tactic against an uncivil aggressor. We are witnessing this with the Democrat versus Republican war. The Democrats keep stepping over the rules of precedent while the Republicans keep holding to the traditional decorum. The Republicans are clearly losing.